Spiritual Life and Leadership
Ministry leadership is about more than just growing your church or organization. It’s about participating in God’s mission in the world. But how can leaders know God’s mission or their unique place in it? Faithful ministry leadership is rooted in a life of deep and abiding faithfulness to Jesus. In “Spiritual Life and Leadership,” Markus Watson and his guests explore what it means to be faithful leaders whose ministry flows from their ever-deepening relationship with God.
Spiritual Life and Leadership
313. Embodied Spirituality for Pastors and Leaders, with Mark Scandrette and Dave Kludt
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Mark Scandrette has spent over twenty years wrestling with a hard realization: knowing a lot about God doesn't mean you're good at following Jesus. Dave Kludt spent fifteen years in pastoral ministry learning that everything, down to how you arrange the chairs in a room, forms people. Together they co-teach a Doctor of Ministry cohort at Fuller Seminary built around two words: integral and embodied. Mark is the founder of Reimagine and author of Practicing the Way of Jesus and The Ninefold Path of Jesus, and a longtime friend of the podcast (he first joined us back on episode 112). Dave is the president of Reimagine's board, a former pastor of 15 years, and Mark's partner in this new cohort, a Substack, and an upcoming podcast.
IN THIS CONVERSATION:
- Why "getting more information" doesn't lead to transformation, and what does
- What Dave means by an "integral" approach to formation, and why it starts with facing the world's fractures honestly
- What Mark means by "embodied" formation, and the Learning Lab model Reimagine uses to teach by doing
- Why the leader of a Learning Lab has to be a participant, not just an expert
- Moving from a "closed fist" to an "open hand" posture toward your next step
- Why discomfort with failure gets in the way of formation in many churches
- How Mark and Dave use the Enneagram as a formation tool, not a personality quiz
- The "formation edges" Mark and Dave are each working on right now
- Mark and Dave's hopes for the Fuller Doctor of Ministry cohort on integral and embodied formation
RELEVANT RESOURCES AND LINKS:
- markscandrette.com — Mark's website
- reimagine.org — Mark and Dave's organization
- Fuller Seminary's Doctor of Ministry program
- Books mentioned:
- Practicing the Way of Jesus, by Mark Scandrette
- The Ninefold Path of Jesus, by Mark Scandrette
RELATED EPISODES:
- The Beatitudes and Spiritual Leadership, with Mark Scandrette
- The Spiritual Life of a Leader, with Tod Bolsinger
- The Neuroscience of Spiritual Formation, with Jim Wilder
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